MARCIA MCQUAIG MINORCAN DATIL PEPPER PRODUCTS ***

Marcia McQuaig 1 MARCIA MCQUAIG MINORCAN DATIL PEPPER PRODUCTS *** Date: July 23, 2013 Location: Minorcan Datil Pepper Products, LLC Interviewer: Anna Hamilton Transcription: Anna Hamilton Length: 49:48 Project: Datil Peppers of St. Augustine

Marcia McQuaig 2 [Begin Marcia McQuaig] Anna Hamilton: Alright, this is Anna Hamilton with the Southern Foodways Alliance. Today is Tuesday, July 23, 2013, and I m sitting with Marcia McQuaig in her office for Minorcan Datil Pepper Products, and it s sort of an overcast day in St. Augustine right now. But, would you tell me who you are and what you do, please? 00:21 Marcia McQuaig: I am Marcia McQuaig and I own Minorcan Datil Pepper Products here in St. Augustine, Florida. We ve been doing this, we're in our twenty-first year. So we just create yummy condiments, sauces, and introduce them. 00:34 AH: Now how did you come to St. Augustine? 00:36 MM: I'm born and raised here. So was my husband. So I wasn't introduced to the Datil until I started dating him. '76 is when I first had a Datil. We didn't really grow up with them. 00:49 AH: And what was the first time like, experiencing the Datil? 00:52 MM: Well, if it tells you anything, I think I put on quite a bit of weight that weekend. We really ate a lot at my mother-in-law's house, she my my mother-in-law now, but I remember seeing that because we had the pilau, and she just, the legs kind of bobbled. It's one of those country, put it all on the table. It was delicious as always. And we use this now everyday. I mean I use it pretty much in a lot the majority of what we do at home now. 01:19 AH: Really? 01:20 MM: Yeah. 01:21 AH: What kinds of things do you use it for? 01:22 MM: Well, we find neat recipes and we incorporate it. Whether it be with one of the sauces or putting the Datil in a pot of beans, and we do the pilaus, or we do meatloaf and we cut up the Datil. The pepper itself, if you're in too much of a hurry you can use the hot sauce. I have people tell me what they do. We love to grill with the marinade, fresh fish on the grill is delicious. It could go on and on and on. I mean, and just our condiments, the mayonnaise, mustard and relish you could use like you would any: in baked beans, deviled eggs, and it just infuses your recipe with the Datil. And it's just a great flavor. 01:59 AH: I haven't heard of the marinade. That sounds good. 02:02 MM: The marinade is an olive oil-base, and we, my husband loves dipping French bread in it. It's like an infused oil. I also found you can saute on your stove with it, you can marinate your vegetables. We personally love it with fresh seafood, and then I do have other customers that tell

Marcia McQuaig 3 me they use it on chicken and pork. It's good on everything, but if you like to grill, that's the way to go. 02:25 AH: Now do you all still make some of those traditional Minorcan recipes? 02:27 MM: We do, we the pilau yes, I mean, that is pretty much mainstay. But I have to admit that I kind of use my own recipes and throw the pepper in it, or use the condiments or jellies. Just to kick it up. We do a pizza, we do a Hawaiian pizza. So I mix the BBQ sauce with teriyaki, and then that's the base. And then you put on your pineapple and your Canadian bacon and a little bit of mozzarella. But it's to die for. So it kind of incorporates what we like to eat and what the kids you know, just new things. 03:03 AH: Now do you grow Datil peppers at your house? 03:06 MM: We only have like two little plants [laughs]. We grew one year, Steven put in 150 plants, and we wanted to try it. We have the land. And we grew them in pots. But it was like children and it was babysitting. We couldn't go anywhere, we couldn't do anything. You had to go out every morning. They'd be beautiful in the evening and we'd go out and find two or three just totally gone. Just wilted over where they root rot. I mean we got a real education and a real you know, I really sympathize with farmers because now I know what they go through. But I decided then if I don't have to grow them, I don't want to. If we had to we could, but I don't want to do that. 03:44 AH: What kind of care did they require? 03:47 MM: [sighs] A lot. I personally think they're very temperamental plants. They're very hard. I have a hard time starting from seed. My husband doesn't. But they don't you can't leave them in the full sun now. I think with our environment changing and the hotter maybe it's the UV rays, I don't know. But it's different from way back. They need some shade, they need partial shade during the day, they get beat down. Fertilize once a week. It just seems like they don't like a lot of water. They don't like wet feet. So you let them dry out. And I tell people if you let them wilt a little bit it's fine, because once you water them they perk right back up. But if you over water them it could pretty much kill them. So it just seems like it's consistent. And then you learn new things. And then you've got the worms. It's always something! 04:34 AH: So did you save seeds from those plants? 04:37 MM: We do not, because my growers do. So I just take the easy way out and just buy the plants from them, if I grow any. And they save from year to year, so I do feel like it's heirloom, because it is from year to year to year to year that they do keep them. 04:53 AH: Now some people talk about having sweet Datils and super Datils and then the "true" Datil. Did you grow a specific crop?

Marcia McQuaig 4 05:00 MM: No. True Datil. The sweet Datils are delicious. And I think years ago when I was first introduced, I mean years ago, I'm thinking in the early '70s I was told Sue Ann DuPont turned me on to them and said her father grew them, and I'm really thinking that they were called the San Juan pepper. But they look they're Datil but they just have no heat, so people that don't want the heat, you get all the flavor. You know, I love those. But I kind of like the heat. I don't like things too hot. And then the super Datil, and this is just my personal opinion, I was introduced by one of my growers to it. I think he created it. And when he first brought a bushel to us, Steven and I laughed, I told him it kind of looked like a pepper on steroids. Because Richard McDermott at the time grew them, and he's great. He's great. I love him. And he said, his dream was if I could grow just one pepper, because they're a pain to pick, you know, that's so timeconsuming. And one pepper would fill a bushel, you know. [laughs] And he's so comical! And I just really they look more to me like a cross between a habanero and a Datil. So to me, I want to stick with really what the true Datil, the lineage of that. So I don't mess with that. 6:10 AH: Now you mentioned that the Datil, like a green Datil will have purple stripes on it. Can you tell me about that? 6:17 MM: Mm-hm. It has like a purple line. I wish I had some, I just got some from my grower that I don't know what it is, but they always told me it was from the sun, you know, that it would create just this pretty purple little line or streak of purpleness in it. And through the years I saw less and less of that and I thought that was weird. But you do start to see it again. So then I just really feel like, that's how they always were back in the day, even when we grew them. 6:41 AH: Did your husband's family always grow Datil peppers? 6:44 MM: Mamma always had some plants by the kitchen, just like the old, local Minorcan people have. If you go in their backyards you'll see five-gallon buckets with a few plants, you know. It's like everybody's local grows. Yes they do want to grow their own Datils and then make their own sauces or incorporate them because there's a ton of people that make their sauce here in town. 7:05 AH: Now how did you get involved with the pepper sauce business that you have now? 7:10 MM: Um, OK, it really started with mustard and at the beginning we thought we call it Minorcan Mustard. I made it as Christmas gifts. And the hot sauce too. And we gave it to family and everybody, oh this is wonderful, and I was like oh, thank you so much. And I know how family, you know, wants to support you [laughs], and to this day with things I don't feel like I think if somebody's excited they come back to you and say, this was super good, I want this recipe. And when they don't, it's like they're just being nice. And it's fine, but it I didn't really take it to heart until Lonnie Pomar, at O'Steens [a St. Augustine restaurant], a friend of mine, Steven took him some, and he went nuts over it. And he looked at Steven and said, she needs to bottle this. I took Lonnie seriously because Lonnie, Lonnie really knew his stuff. When he owned the restaurant, it still is delicious, but Lonnie really you know, great food, local, new,

Marcia McQuaig 5 so I thought OK, he wouldn't just be saying this. So it started kind of like that and we did. And it just grew with other recipes and us playing around. Steven, my husband Steven did the barbecue. His family loves mayonnaise. They would have a gallon of mayonnaise on the table with every meal if they could. And I've never met people [laughs] I like mayonnaise, but they love mayonnaise so he got them he did the mayonnaise, he did the barbecue, he played around. He plays around, he's playing around with another one. And it's just, we get in the kitchen and we think of something, and if it would be good, and then we just go for it. So it just kind of grows that way. 8:47 AH: And what year did you start it? 8:49 MM: 1990 1992. 1992. The same year, as a matter of fact, Charlie opened Schooner's [a St. Augustine restaurant]. Charlie's also a friend, and he worked at Barnacle Bill's, so it all kind of see how it mushrooms out? Chris worked at O'Steens, opened Barnacle Bill's, and Charlie, he was looking for sauce to put in, to use in his chowder and in his restaurant so we kind of connected that way. 9:15 AH: So when you first started making the mustard you said you started out with, where were you doing that? 9:20 MM: We did that with we did it in a test batch at home and then Lisa Geck at Stage Coach Sauces was my original bottler. And then I came back to town with a company and then I've gone back to her, though, and she does most of my bottling. And then I have another bottler in Ocala that is going to do she does the clam chowder. 9:44 AH: So how often do you all make a batch of something? 9:46 MM: The hot sauce is our biggest seller and it runs every other month. The gallons, and then the bottles. The others it all just depends how popular it is. It can be three times a year. It would surprise you, but we do do a minimum of 200 cases a run. And not with all products, because some you can't I don't want to make that big. I made the mistake of cooking in those large quantities and it doesn't come out the same. They really have to be some products have to be done smaller batches. The hot sauce though, we kick out every other month. And it just goes quicker and quicker. The others, some are picking up. The mayonnaise is getting quite popular. The jellies always have been. They're not all they all vary on a scale of what's popular. I would definitely say the hot sauce has stayed ahead of the game. In front of all the other products. 10:42 AH: So what are could you tell me what some of your products are? 10:44 MM: We have a hot sauce and then we were told at a Tampa show we did years when I first started, a hot fiery food show, it wasn't hot! So I decided OK, I'll make an extra hot. And I knew then I couldn't please everyone. Because he was drinking it. And I still think the extra hot to some people, if they really want hot, it's not going to be that hot. So we have an extra hot sauce.

Marcia McQuaig 6 We have the hot vinegar and peppers and we do the marinade. We do a barbecue, a mustard, a sweet heat salsa, a mayonnaise, a garlic Datil mayonnaise. We do a cranberry jam and then our green jelly has the mint in it, a little hint of mint in it. And a relish. We've taken in the peanuts, the Datil peanuts. And then we do dried pepper seeds and the spice, which is the ground, like the powder. And that's where I tell people, you buy that and you put it in your food if you want the heat. 11:42 AH: What's your favorite? 11:44 MM: My favorite? I don't know that I really have a favorite because it depends on what I'm doing. The mayonnaise I really do like, the salsa I could eat. The sad thing about the salsa is that if I open the jar I tend to eat the whole jar [laughs]. And it's gone before you know it, you know what I mean? The barbecue though, we do that we use these products. I don't buy barbecue, I don't buy other things. This is what I use at home. So the barbecue is pretty I like the barbecue. I like it all. The marinade I adore, I can't tell you. The jelly, oh my God. I roast a pork tenderloin with that. That became my son's favorite meal. So you know you just start basting it. So you get the sweet heat when you slice the meat, and then I had a woman in Jax Beach [Jacksonville Beach], her husband grills pork chops and slathers it on. It's the same premise for what I do, but he slathers the pork chops at the end with it. But you know, if you like that sweet heat and that's what I try to do, I try to create the products to where it's the flavor of the Datil that's coming out. The heat's good, but I don't like something so much that I can't taste anything, you know, your mouth is kind of numb [laughs]. The Datil's so unique in its flavor, it's like a sweet tropical flavor. It is a close cousin to a habanero, so its got the heat, but it's not like any pepper out there in my opinion. 13:04 AH: Now how do you determine your recipes? How do you work through them? Do you, you know, recipes from your husband's family that you use? Or did you how did you concoct your recipes? 13:15 MM: We know pretty much, like we get recipes from, yes, from members, or we see a recipe and say that's an old traditional, which really started out the hot sauce. We played around. There's so many out there you kind of know the basis and then we just tweaked it to what we liked. And I do like sweet. I know that doesn't fit everybody. They're honey-based, the hot sauces, I do have a few products that aren't sweet. But you know, as you cook, and the foods you like to eat, it just is like, let's do a Datil pepper. We got a bronze medal in Nappa Valley for our mustard years ago and we did get a Scovie Award for the extra hot. So I haven't really entered. I'm thinking I maybe I need to do that to get it out there. And I'm thinking of pursuing that. I will taste something or go somewhere and you might have a condiment or a sauce you like and say I'd like to do something, but with Datil. So then we just create our own, something we like. 14:18 AH: That's neat. 14:20

Marcia McQuaig 7 MM: So we just play around with it in the kitchen. We have fun with it. And I have to give Steven kudos for that, because he's really good. He's really good at and he's really particular. Sometimes I don't have the patience, I want to just dump everything. [laughs] He's very precise. You have to be when you do a recipe! Because lot's of times it's like, he'll look and me and say what did you do? And it's like, I don't remember. [laughs] So I have learned to write everything down. I've gotten to be one of those that I just dump, dump, dump, and it's like, we can't create it again. And that's not good [laughs]. 14:48 AH: Now are you working on anything new? 14:52 MM: Yeah, we are, we are. We do have you know, I don't really like to say, competition is good, but I kind of feel like when I do, I don't want somebody else to beat us to it. It's already out there, this product, but this was something else that people have come to us and they'll request. We service a lot of restaurants and they'll want a certain thing for something. So we're thinking, OK. But there's so many avenues you could take. But right now if I don't I don't want to create something that's just going to sit on the shelf or we're only going to cook once. You know what I mean? It needs to make some money. It needs to be popular enough in what the trends are in what people are eating and what they're looking for. So that's what I'm trying to do now. The clam chowder's coming back. We did that in '11 and we had to shut the door. My bottler, she's phenomenal, and she the FDA came in, and they said, a lot of your sauces, they're all labtested, they're all the ph level is very important for shelf life, and that's what the problem was. So we tried to tweak it and do this, but it wasn't going to fly or she'd be shut down. And me, I didn't want to do that to her, and I didn't want to be shut down. But you know, it's funny, I'm opening clam chowder from '11 and having it at home, and it's delicious. So I sometimes wonder, you know? Because you look at the big companies and what they do. And things they say are in their products aren't in their products. I have learned that smaller business people like me really do care about what goes in their line and what is there. We don't want any problems. We don't want anybody to get sick or have anything happening. I've never had anybody come back. So it's funny that way, when you think about it. I guess it goes to show you that the big boys, if they have the money, what they can do. But a lot of these people at the FDA too, I don't think they're that knowledgeable. Because she is, and she's the book-smart and the degrees, and she asks questions and they can't answer it. Because they go by their books. So it kind of hurts. But what we're doing, to get around all that, we have to do a cold pack. 17:01 AH: And now what does that mean? 17:03 MM: It means it has to stay on ice in the refrigerator and we'll sell it that way. I didn't really want to do that. But it's going to be a seasonal product, so we're going to introduce it back in September through March, and I have people wanting it. So we'll just carry it on the markets we do or if we do shows, in coolers, and pack them on dry ice or however I have to do it to ship it. 17:25 AH: So do you can it? Is that how you 17:27

Marcia McQuaig 8 MM: Yeah. It was done in mason jars because it's beautiful. The thing of it is if you do it in a can and you re-do it and if you've noticed, I don't know if you've noticed, a lot of canned soups all taste the same. Because they have a procedure they have to use. You not only bring it up to a certain temperature, but then, what the FDA was saying, was then it's more or less another bath. And as my bottler told me, she was like, it would just we both realized it would turn to mush. And it's like, no. It doesn't make any sense. So that's the problem. So it was too pretty, you could see all the vegetables, you could see it, and I wanted it in glass so it could be seen. I kind of thought maybe plastic, but I don't know. I really like the glass. I don't know yet,but I'm determined to bring it back one way or another. 18:18 AH: Well it seems like the true test is if the producer will happily eat whatever they're producing. 18:25 MM: Yeah, yeah. And I didn't have one complaint. And nothing that was wrong. I mean, in canning, as you know, you kind of get a feel for it, and you could tell. But we didn't have any problems. And even people that came to me and said I was a little leery, but we've opened it and I just want you to know it was really good. Because you're sitting on the edge of the seat like, OK, it's coming down the pipe. You know, something was not right with it. And so I'm I mean want the feedback and I want to know, but I didn't have any, so. I just kind of felt like I was one up on the FDA. [laughs] They really don't know what they're saying. But you have to abide. You know, I didn't want to get in trouble, and I didn't want her to get in trouble, so we're going to do it that way and make it a seasonal product. 19:10 AH: Now can you talk a little bit about what's in the clam chowder? 19:13 MM: The clam chowder is your traditional Minorcan recipe that I grew up with that my motherin-law shared with me. So that's what we're doing, it's our family it's more or less it's potatoes and clams and tomatoes and Datil pepper, green pepper, celery, lot's of good stuff. Just your basic chowder. And we use the oh well. Oh, let me think. When you said that chowder. I can't 19:45 AH: That's OK. 19:55 MM: It went blank in my mind. But all your good veggies are mixed, and the Datil. We do bacon. We do use the bacon. I know some people who are I'm really seeing that people care where their food comes from when I do these markets. They want to read what's in it. I don't use a lot of bacon and we were going to, we were playing around trying to do no nitrates and this and that, but it really does add flavor. I can't do it without the bacon, it's just not the same. So I might win some and lose a few, but that's basically what it is. But it's the family recipe, and I tend to go thick [laughs]. We've had some discussion on this, my husband and me. But I can't help it even when I make it for the family, you could eat it with a fork. It's thick. So the upscale, the up-play to sell it is I tell people just add more liquid. Whether it be tomatoes or water. You ll make it go further. So I think it's reasonable, the price range. And I think it's really good and that way they can eat it thick or thin it out. I can't help it, it's just how I do things [laughs]. 21:00

Marcia McQuaig 9 AH: It's whatever you prefer. You're the 21:02 MM: Well, yeah. I mean, I know. There's still people that it's such a debate in this family because it's a big family [laughs]. 21:08 AH: Now when you develop your recipes, do you have to tweak them in order to bottle them? If you have something you make at home, does it change when you have to get it bottled? 21:15 MM: My bottler does that. They really that's their knowledge. That's their field. So they get the recipe that makes I take it to them and say, this makes x amount of bottles or quarts or poundage-wise or gallons, and then they know exactly what to do to fill their vat, and how much. And then yes, always the first cooking we have to taste and we tweak. The chowder was a little, it was difficult to get it right, but we did. We did. So I'm glad I don't have to worry about that because I'm not good at math and all that [laughs]. 21:50 AH: Does it taste different when you make something at home and then when it's been bottled? 21:54 MM: No. Because we don't, I don't allow them to go in these huge We did it once. We did it once and it was a flop. I think you lose it then. You have to keep it small enough but maybe cooking more than one vat during the day, but small enough that we're only doing this much, and then bottle it. Then we'll do another. Then these huge cookers you know, they would probably love to do. It's more money for them. 22:24 AH: It's true. Now where can you find your products? Where do you sell to? 22:29 MM: We sell all over. We're in a lot of places in St. Augustine. OK. We've had some people from Saint Simons Island call us, Wine and Cheese if You Please. It's really exciting when they call us, too. But we're out of this area, somewhat. But locally, you can go on our website or you can go on the Facebook page and see where, what places we're getting in to. We have listed all our stores on our website. Courtney's working on that, rather. I hope it's done before I tell you that, but she's got a lot of them on there. But The Winery, the St. Augustine Lighthouse, which is a perfect fit, with the lighthouse, because that's what that picture is [in reference to the Minorcan Datil Pepper Products label, which features the St. Augustine Lighthouse]. You know, the seafood shops, we're downtown in a lot of the hot shops, and gift shops and the VIC Center [The St. Augustine Visitor Information Center]. So Kyle's Seafood, Curry's Market, I like to keep it in little places like that, too, so people can find it, you know, not just your touristy places. It s a good fit. The wine shops are great. So we're pursuing more distributors. That's what I'm trying to do. 22:34 AH: Now what s the farthest away you've shipped or sold? 22:38 MM: Iowa. Idaho. California. Canada. We used to be in a store in Canada but I think when the Datil's not I don't know what happens. It's not like my brand is out there and is out there like

Marcia McQuaig 10 Hine's 57 [cell phone rings] or Hunt's Catsup. So people aren't familiar with it. And that is in the marketing. [cell phone rings] Sorry. And that is what I'm trying to improve upon. 24:02 AH: No, no, you can answer that. 24:05 MM: It's my daughter, it s fine. [cell phone rings] What I'm getting at is, I know our products are delicious. [cell phone rings] I know they are, they speak for themselves. But it's the marketing and I'm trying to really to do that, to work on that now. And let Courtney stay in the office and do this stuff. And I need to get out there. 24:20 AH: And Courtney's your daughter? 24:22 MM: Courtney's my daughter. 24:24 AH: How did she become involved? 24:26 MM: She's been involved she went back to school because when the economy tanked, she has her contractor's license, she came out of college and got it immediately. [office phone rings]. She's worried about her dog. [Answering phone:] Minorcan Datil? [phone call 24:48 till 24:58]. She went to SCAD [Savannah College of Art and Design]. She put herself back at SCAD and decided to pair up historic preservation. So she graduated last May, and came back here and there wasn't really anything open, so she's doing like three different jobs. But she's really been great. She's creative. She's revamped our labels. She's just very good with the books, doesn't want me near the books. Which is great for me because I don't like that part of the business. So she's hands-on too, and she's been a really big help. 25:33 AH: That's fantastic. 25:35 MM: So she's picking up things I don't like to do, or don't have the knowledge. You know, with all the technology takes me so many hours to do something, which I know I have to learn, which she let's me know many times, but it's nice to have someone that can do that. Keep us out there. So our name is out there. The Facebook page, doing things. We never had a business plan [laughs]. I don't really like to brag on that, but I have winged it. But it must say something because I am still here. So I did run into a friend I used to work with at the DMV [Department of Motor Vehicles] and she is a graphic artist and does all this stuff, and she came up with our business plan. So now we have one. It's just funny how your paths cross again, you know? And I've been working with her and it's great. It just gives you kind of a focal point. I've just been all over the place so I never had time for it I guess [laughs]. I did the best I knew and it works. 26:34 AH: Is your husband involved in the business too?

Marcia McQuaig 11 MM: Steven is in with Saint Johns Food Service and he helps, yes, he sells it, and the restaurants, and they used to warehouse the product. And now we have our own warehouse. I do keep the peppers down there in the freezer. We freeze, that's how we store the peppers, and he's been a big help that way. And that was my goal, I was so hoping to eventually get him out of there and this just be run by us. Because he's a great salesperson. 27:03 AH: So it is a family business. 27:04 MM: Yes, it is literally. My son was doing markets but he found a job I just, I can't support them on it right now. So I'm hoping. I want to see it in my lifetime. I know that for them it will be there, my two children. But I'm hoping that in my lifetime Steve and I will reap some rewards [laughs]. But it's fun. I really do enjoy it. And I think it's a good thing. And it's a local pepper. And designing the label with the lighthouse, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to kind of promote also the city, St. Augustine. Because it's like St. Augustine's pepper. It s the secret pepper. So I thought would be kind of a, it might be a little quirky, but I like it now. I'm happy we went that route, with the name and the label. And we've gotten a lot of good feedback on our label. So I think all in all I've done OK [laughs]. 28:01 AH: So this is the newest label? Did you have a different label when you started? 28:06 MM: No. You see the mustard and the salsa and its smaller? Courtney said it was in the old print. So the hot sauce and the marinade, we're getting there as we reprint, and vinegar. And then we have the blurb on the family business on the side instead of the Minorcans. And I really like it. And the color stands out more. I just think it's really she upgraded it to that. And it's the cuisine of old St. Augustine, you know, the tagline underneath it. Which was quite comical when we did it because as we all sit down and Steven's like, well you can't really read it. And I'm like, well that's the point! Somebody will pick it up and put it closer to them. [laughs] It's just funny when you get everybody's opinion. It's good, it s good, but it is funny. And I'm thinking, well, you're right! But. That's OK, we're leaving it. 28:55 AH: Too many cooks in the kitchen. 28:56 MM: Yes, that's right. Everybody has their opinion [laughs]. 28:58 AH: Do people call you a lot and say, what is the Datil pepper? And why what's the history? 29:04 MM: Oh yeah, oh yeah. People want to know. But once they taste it, they're hooked though. And that's what I love. You know, so I have customers that are fifteen years and older that are buying from me. Isn't that remarkable? And I remember them, I know their names, I know who they are. And it may be like, we do an Amelia Island market and you get a lot of tourists up there, and that's why I love it. Because it kind of goes out in different areas. But they, they're dumbfounded. What's that? They've never heard of it, and then once they taste it they buy it. So it's fun, just to see their reaction. But yeah. It is amazing to me after all this time that people don't know what a

Marcia McQuaig 12 Datil pepper is. I really would've thought that with all those fiery food shows, Dave DeWitt would've picked up they would've you know, when they do those pepper books and when they do things they nobody ever really includes the Datil. It's really and maybe as Steven, my husband, says, you need to write a letter to them. And I m thinking, maybe we do. We're even thinking about some maybe we should get some type of Food Network chef. We met Paula Deen, with all that stuff [laughs], I love Paula, I do God love her in Atlanta in a tiny kitchen show. And when she was in the restaurant I was kind of able to corral her and ask her if she'd ever heard of it. And she said, no, what is a Datil pepper? But you know, I'm seriously thinking that we need to get the word out [laughs]. 30:34 AH: Why do you think people don't know? 30:37 MM: I don't have a clue. It's beyond me, it really is. You know my husband will say Steven's biggest fear is he and I hope that's a problem we have to cross one day, but he said, you don't want it to get like that because you can't produce enough peppers. But I think it's all supply and demand. I think if the demand is there, then you'll have more farmers and other ones growing them. Truthfully, I really do. That would be a nice problem to have, in my book. I don't think like he does [laughs], bless his heart. He it's good, ying and yang, you know? But I don't think that way. I want to have those problems [laughs]. 31:13 AH: It's just so remarkable that it's so popular here. I mean everyone, even if you're not Minorcan and you grew up in St. Augustine, you know what Datil peppers are. 31:21 MM: Right. 31:22 AH: And chances are you make your own sauce, but you go to Jacksonville or Gainesville, and you know, some other place in Florida or Georgia, and nobody's ever heard of it. 31:30 MM: No. Now, I'm in a store in Folkston and Florahome [towns in north central Florida], which is outside of Gainesville. He's selling it very well. And I'm hitting Jacksonville a little harder. So because that just floors me. But I don't really know. I guess we kind of kept it a secret in a way. When we went to Atlanta, I thought, OK, this will be a breeze! And we found out that if people didn't go to Flagler College or have children that went there, or they hadn't come through St. Augustine. So we realized then, and this was just three years ago, that you cross the St. Johns County line and Atlanta's not that far. I thought, this will be no! But I also, I'm the type I'm an optimist. So this just meant OK, that just means there's a bigger market out there. That's how I'm looking at it. Just spread it. But I'm telling you, from where we ship all over, it's amazing. So I do tell people out of this area and the stores, you have to sample it. Because if you don't sample it, you're not going to sell it. A lot of people see that hot sauce, hot on the label, or 'pepper,' and they think oh, I can't do that. And some people can't. I mean the mayonnaise and the salsa is pretty mild and some people think it's just burning hot. We're all different. But if they sample it, they sell it. 32:51

Marcia McQuaig 13 AH: And why? What makes the Datil pepper sauce different from other hot sauces? 32:55 MM: It's the flavor. It's just got a unique taste. I think. I don't think it's just hot. Like I said, it's a sweetness, tropical. Anything you put in your recipes, try it! Just add a pepper, or try some of the sauces and it's just deviled eggs alone. I love the mustard in my baked beans. It just kicks it up to another level and gives you a whole different and then you get it, the flavor, without any heat. You just taste, you can really taste you can just taste what the Datil is though. Because it just kind of works its way through everything. 32:28 AH: Now do you notice that the Datil flavor changes based on what its in? Or is it pretty constant? 33:34 MM: I haven't noticed that, to be honest. I don't think it changes. I think that you can I think it depends on the strength, on the amount of Datils you use. Because a lot of people will say, well this is hotter than before. Well I can't control the heat in each pepper. We go by a certain weight, consistently, and if it comes out a little hotter. But you know Chasing Chiles? Have you read that book? When they came here and interviewed us, and I thought was really neat what they went and did, about why it's so difficult and what's going on around here. So I'm determined, I m determined to get this out. The market's flooded. Go downtown in St. Augustine and you'll see all sorts of Datil pepper sauces. 34:19 AH: Well that brings up a good point: what is the competition like? And how do you navigate those waters? 34:26 MM: I welcome, I think competition is good. I don't worry about it. I really when we produce something or have a new product, I thoroughly love it. We use it. I believe in it. So I don't really think about it. And I think that that's great for them. It's a long hard road. This is not an easy task. It sounds great. And we thought that way when we started, oh, we'll make our own and just be rolling in money. It really is. And marketing is the key. But I know I think being here in the longevity, that we've got good products, good tasting products. So now I'm, as usual, going backwards [laughs], where people do their marketing. Now I'm trying to I'm determined, we ll get it out there. You'll see it. And we private label a lot too, now. That seems to be helping. For at local restaurants and not-so local restaurants, down south, a couple restaurants have taken it on. It's fine with me. As long as it's getting out there, the Datil pepper. They'll sell it. 35:34 AH: So private label will you just explain what a private label is? 35:36 MM: A private label is like, for instance, we have some examples if you want to look in that book [gestures to a black binder full of sauce labels used by different St. Augustine restaurants], of our private labels that we would approach Gypsy Cab [a local restaurant] is our newest customer. We tweaked it, and Courtney heads that up, that we take their logo and we put it on their label. And they use it any way. They buy it in the gallons or even if they don't, but they buy it, or put it on their tables. Some don't care to have their business on there. But it's also a win-win

Marcia McQuaig 14 for them. It's also advertisement for them. They can sell it over the counter and then its the restaurant along with the Datil pepper. And they like that idea. People who own their own businesses like to see their name. And it's still a sale, so I don't care about that. It's mainly it's a Datil pepper sauce and it's getting out there. And it's been fun. That was my husband's idea. And it was a real smart idea. So we're working on that, tweaking that and moving along. 36:34 AH: That's a good idea. 36:35 MM: We do weddings. People call and want little gifts. They don't really do the private labeling because it can get pricey and they own the labels. But we've had a lot of calls for weddings and they want something from this area. They're coming back home to get married, and we've done a lot of things like that through the years. 36:35 AH: That's interesting, so people coming back to their roots who want to share some of that. 36:57 MM: Yeah. Or even if they're not getting married but this is from my hometown and they want to put it in the gift bag or whatever they're doing. 37:03 AH: That's neat. 37:04 MM: So I'm thinking, you know, that's different. That is a neat thing. So I try to help them, in ways. And possibly thinking of smaller jars but that's a whole other it's just one more thing to keep up with. I don't know yet. But yeah, we do a lot of that. And it's good. So you're getting it in the hands of people from all over that you wouldn't normally. I think it's just a neat thing. So it s like, I'm flattered. 37:30 AH: So moving back to the history of the Datil pepper, just a second. When people call and ask, or ask you at a market or something, what do you tell them? 37:37 MM: Well, I tell them that, to my knowledge, that it was brought here in the 1700s. And it was by Minorcans. I let them know about how they were indentured servants and they were down on the Turnbull Creek and they came up this way. And then also that, then they want to know well, where's Minorca? Well the Isle of Minorcan is off the coast of Spain. And that's the legend that I have always heard. But I let them know that that's what I've heard. You know, there are other stories that it's come through Cuba and down the coast, and could be. But I kind of like that, that's kind of romancing the pepper, you know? I kind of like that. Regardless, it's here. And I do know that it was with the Minorcans because they I really truly believe that because they still use it and then you get all this history and people can date back through their families with the pepper. And cooking with it and using it. So it's like, wow. 38:33 AH: Does that history help sell, you know, sauces? 38:39

Marcia McQuaig 15 MM: I think it does. My husband likes to say, and we'll probably use this little tag line, you know, we're not just another hot sauce, we're 400 years of history. It's not just a hot sauce, I mean this is really I think people really when you travel, don't you like to get things that are indigenous to that area? I do. Wherever I go. And I do remember talking with Cracker Barrel at their home office, and conversing back and forth. And in my early days I didn't know how to do it because they said, what kind of following do you have? And I thought, what do they mean, 'a following?' [laughs] I didn't have figures, I didn't have numbers, but my idea was, wouldn't it be nice I would think if I owned the franchise, I'd want a section of the gift shop that was just in that area, what that area was known for, have products that people, as they get off the interstate I just think that's a win-win, but they didn't think so at the time. [laughs] The manager did, but I I thought about calling them back now and letting them know that probably ten years ago I contacted you guys and throwing that idea out. I think it's crazy they don't do that, because there's so many of them. 39:40 AH: Yeah. That's a good idea. 39:50 MM: You know? And that's kind of what I'm trying to do. And when I go into places and let them know that it's St. Augustine is celebrating its birthday, that this is St. Augustine, this is a part of our history. I've even tried to talk to people in certain restaurants. You know, you need a Datil pepper wing. You need this. I mean, I would think you would tout this out there and put it out there and it would be one and one. Especially when people come in to St. Augustine for the celebration, that you have this. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but I'm pretty tenacious there. [laughs] That's why Courtney puts me out on the street, you need to go sell. I don't mind doing that part of it. I do get excited about it. I think it's something we should be very proud of. We should expand more on it and let people know it's here. 40:35 AH: One of the things about Datil pepper sauce is that it's known locally as bottled hell. Have you heard that before? 40:44 MM: Yes. Some of the old, long you know, old families, that when they say, my grandfather made bottled hell. And I read any articles I can find I read and I think it's so funny. But I didn't want to lock myself into that. I'm not a real hot, hot person, myself. So my whole, like I told you before, let it be flavorful and you can taste the pepper and the sauce, what's in it. We want the flavor. So there's a lot of sauces out there that could be considered bottled hell, but I'm not going to make one of them [laughs]. 41:20 AH: Now would you just talk a little bit about what's in your sauce? It might be top secret but 41:25 MM: No, the ingredients are listed there. I do have a sweet I do like sweet. So what I like to promote too is they make great hot wings. They're honey-based, there's Datil pepper, we do use fresh veggies. So as my one bottler says, I'm a pain in her rump because it's I know bottlers would just love to dump and mix. Open and dump and stir and mix. And they have to grind and they have to you know before, in the early days I was having them cut the onions and cut, you

Marcia McQuaig 16 know, we'd buy the big bags. And it was just ridiculous. So now I can purchase them pre-cut. And then they just can grind them. We've come a long way. But I got a lot of in trouble for that. And I would just smile and say, but this is what you do! [laughs] I mean, this is what you do, this is not my problem. This is what you say you do. I don't quite get that. So I do like to use fresh things and mix it up. And just like even with the jellies. You know, the jellies. And I also try to do things as minimal, no preservatives. I can't claim organic, that would be a whole another take and another expense. One day, maybe. But we really try, like, just the fruit and the sugar for our jams. And nothing added. We took the green food coloring out of our jelly two years ago. So it's just colored by the green peppers and the Datils. And I don't want to add anything that I don't want to eat. I've gotten kind of picky with what we eat, and it seems to be the trend now. I'm glad to see it, really. That people care about what's in there and where it's coming from. So, you know, we just we're just having fun with it [laughs]. 43:19 AH: Now is your sauce a cooked sauce? Or is it 43:22 MM: Yes. Everything is cooked except our marinade and our mayonnaise. We do not make our mayonnaise from scratch. I would love to, but I'm scared to death. I make homemade mayonnaise. We eat my mayonnaise at home. I do know how to do it, but I don't know what the liabilities would be. And we just thought that would be a fun thing to offer, and it's really gone over well. I mean it's funny, people really love that mayonnaise. It's good. The rest are all heat cooked products. The vinegar, hot. We do that. We didn't used to, and I changed that. I don't think it makes a difference. Some people think it preserves the peppers better. I don't think it does. I didn't use to heat the vinegar at all. So. Just a fun thing to do. Very tedious and time-consuming. And hand package everything, from the dried peppers to the seeds. We have to wear masks for seeds. It is ridiculous. We get those masks [laughs]. And I'm not lying. And then I'm coughing and sneezing and you've got tissues all over the. It's just ridiculous. 44:37 AH: Now how many peppers would you say you use in a week? 44:40 MM: In a week? Don't know. We go through we buy a hundred pounds at a time and we stock pile them. So we have thousands of pounds right now in the freezer. I couldn't tell you, a week? I don't know. But we are keeping a record, I am this year, of the pound-wise I buy. I find it, I want to see how interesting this will be each year what we keep moving up towards. So we kind of get a better feel. 45:05 AH: I understand those safety precautions, because I know those fumes even if you're cooking sauce at home those fumes from the Datil peppers 45:12 MM: Oh, oh. I used to have a cat and she would come in now this is when we did the test batches, trust me, because the kids were really small and going to elementary school, and I would say, well I'm going to try to make this and I would put it on the stove, and I would I'll never forget looking down at Carolina, was her name, and she was sitting there with her eyes closed in the kitchen. She wouldn't even open her eyes. [laughs] And then Courtney came home

Marcia McQuaig 17 one day from elementary school and was so upset with me and let me know, that mom, you have to stop this because we smell like Datil peppers. It's on our backpacks, it's in our clothes and we get on the bus and everybody and I love it. I love the smell of it. I think I've just gotten immune to it. It really doesn't bother me. And it didn't dawn on me. I felt bad. But it was so comical. I wish in a way I could've filmed her because I got a lecture on that. But I didn't even think about it. So here are these two kids getting on the bus and, oh! [laughs] She was so humiliated. 46:16 AH: [laughs] Now have you had any Datil pepper-related injuries? 46:20 MM: Well, I mean of course when you're messing with stuff, yeah. If you touch your eye, I've done that and it's like, oh. And I've gone to bed many a nights in the early days where my hands were literally on fire. But then it got to the point that I just got used to it. I'd go, yeah they are, I could feel them burning and burning and burning and burning, and then even in the next morning. And my husband had an accident that men would have: He was sitting in Barnacle Bill's one day talking to the other guys and they were talking about the Datil pepper and so he had one, and he cracked it open and he was saying you d really have to get the story from him, I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but needless the man went, excuses himself to go to the bathroom and then he said, I didn't even sit back down, I walked by the table and said see you later! And he just left. [laughs] I mean, yeah it does I even sometimes just do that [motions to wash hands] just to make sure because I'm so afraid if I touch someone else and I can feel that it's still on my skin. But I mean, oh yeah, all the time. Lot's of time you'll do that [rubs her face] or you'll do this, and it's like, oh. But it doesn't bother me anymore. It doesn't bother me. Honestly. The eyes, yes, it will burn. But you know what I mean. I think after all those years you get used to it. 47:32 AH: I think you're right. It's part of you [laughs]. 47:36 MM: It just doesn't faze you like other people. Courtney can't stand, still to this day, we can take it to our bottler and we can start dehydrating and the smell and it just some people can't stand it but I love it. I could sit in it, in the room with it. [laughs] I never thought about what I smell like when I leave, though. That's funny. I guess I need to think about that [laughs]. 48:05 AH: Well that's all my questions. Is there anything else that you want to add or something that I didn't ask that I should have that you want to talk about? 48:09 MM: I don't think so. I hope I was some help. Like I said, I think we just kind of fell into this. But it's been fun. And I've learned a lot so I'm going to continue on promoting it, hopefully. Getting it out there. 48:24 AH: Fighting for the Datil. 48:25 MM: Maybe you'll see it on national TV one day.

Marcia McQuaig 18 48:27 AH: That would be something. 48:29 MM: It needs to be. It needs to be promoted. That was the other thing, you see these little local cookbooks with Datil peppers and you've got the family recipes from simple recipes, which are great, don't get me wrong. Creole and the pilau and meatloaf, or making dips. And sauces. I had teamed up with a local chef and dropped the ball on that also because it got so involved, trying to publish a cookbook. And then Courtney realized, when she looked at all the recipes, that we said I'm hoping to produce this or get it out there. It's going to be under his name and everything, but with our name on it too. But it would be for people that really like to cook. It's not your and it has a couple of hot sauce recipes to make a hot sauce and stuff. I was asked if that bothered, or should I do that. And I said why not? People make their own anyway, it's not mine. And I don't care about that. So I think that would be a fun thing to do. So that's what I'd like to do. 49:39 AH: That sounds great. 49:40 MM: Yeah. So we'll see. 49:42 AH: Well thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 49:43 MM: You're welcome Anna. Good luck with all this. 49:45 AH: Thanks. END 49:48